Trailers, child seats and tricycleweb.com
I suspect if anyone finds this blog, it’ll be because they are looking into buying a bakfiets. I’ll eventually post up all the resources I discovered when I was searching, but suffice to say that notwithstanding the many helpful things people have written, these bikes are still difficult to research. Difficult if you aren’t Dutch, that is. Apparently there are about 10,000 sold in the Netherlands now. Anyways, here is how we found ourselves considering a bakfiets:
Dissatisfaction with the readily available options lead us to start looking. My wife is car free. Driving impaired, if you will. She will tell you she can drive. The law says she can’t. She fought the law and the law won. I’ve seen her play driving games, so I guess the husbandly thing to do is just keep quiet. Let’s just say she’s best as a virtual Michelle Mouton. Having been bike dependent for so long, when mini-Mekon became imminent, bike options were quickly investigated. I guess we’d have liked a Chariot, but the price of the CX we lusted after was prohibitive at the time (baby on the way, etc), and once we’d added all the accessories we’d need it looked like a costly choice. Clearly Zwei plus Zwei, the EU distributors, must have seen a gap in the market, because we found they sold a similar design for half the price. The Croozer 737 isn’t as light, and collapses vertically rather than horizontally, but otherwise it’s all there. We used it as a pram, jogger and trailer, albeit MrsMekon never got over the feeling that drivers wouldn’t see it, and never really used it on the road that much. However, what really bugged us about it was generic to trailers – it’s really hard to interact with your child. Riding ceases to be sociable, and merely becomes a means of moving human cargo to a destination. Mini-Mekon is all about the chitter-chatter, and when chitter-chatter becomes unavailable, he defaults to whining. Rides stopped being fun.
Our next effort was the WeeRide. It’s an excellent design. Fitting is a doddle, the child can blather away. The foot guards do a reasonable job of keeping the child out of mischief, and the little table-thing works as somewhere to rest a head against when the child falls asleep. However in common with any child seat, laden with child, a lot of weight is placed high on the bike, altering the centre of gravity. When that weight decides it is bored and wants to throw itself from side to side, the bike wobbles a lot. Not cool when your cycle paths are only a metre or so wide. We noticed that Mini-Mekon was doing this regularly, and was nearing the size limit of the design, so we went back to the trailer. With the spring approaching, we were getting out on the bikes more often, but we were back with the problem of no chitter chatter. However, as well as whinging, Mini-Mekon had discovered he could kick open the velcro attached cover and throw things out of the trailer. There were disagreements over whether is amounted to funniest discovery of the last 2 and 1/2 years, or a reason that someone was fast becoming an unwelcome member of our riding group. Despite efforts to reconcile the opinions, discarded hats and shoes and numerous u-turns to retrieve said items meant other options had to be investigated.
We’d seen the Winther Kangaroo reviewed online and the ownership experience seemed positive (plus see Stonehead’s comment on this post). It seemed like trikes might be the way to go. Initially, we thought the Kangaroo was too much money for us. Thanks to a generous relative, later on in the process this stopped being an issue, but at £1700 it’s not something people will buy on impulse. We looked at other options. The one that stood out to me was the Christiania light. I think that this is a beautiful design, especially with the Bugatti hood. Once we’d totted up the extras we’d need, we found we were over £1400. Budgets were written, forecasts were produced, economies made – we could get one in time for summer. Then my wife found bakfietsweb.nl / tricycleweb.com. Notwithstanding the astonishing cost of shipping, these looked like a bargain – we could get a bike that looks almost identical to the Christiania for about 2/3rds the price. I emailed the company and found they were willing to let me arrange my own shipping, which reduced the price even more. We were ready to order. However, one thing made me pause – where were the reviews?
When you look at the site in Dutch, then translate using Google, you can see it’s full of countless testimonials, but I wanted to see posts on bike forums and blogs. Velovision indicated that other people thought they looked like a bargain, but after asking, I still couldn’t find anyone with one. Then I tried Facebook. Henry Cutler of Workcycles fame (search around – it appears most English speaking bakfiets-owners have been helped by him or by someone he’s helped) had a group, so I posted up the following question:
I wondered if any of you guys have built a bike from bakfietsweb.nl / tricycle.com? We’re looking at a model 030-iv, and would love to hear from someone who has done it already.
I haven’t built one of those bikes personally but people bring them into our shop periodically and we can’t even work on them. To keep it short: Don’t do it. Its one of the worst bicycles I’ve ever seen. The Bakfietsweb bikes are not €1600 bikes for €500, they’re €79 bikes for €500. If you actually succeed in getting it assembled, it will still ride awfully and deteriorate before your eyes. I took some photos of one I passed the other day: broken frame, rust everywhere, box falling apart. I’ll put a couple photos up here.Groeten,
Henry
The Bakfietsweb Chinese copy of the Bakfiets.nl Cargobike. This bike is also sold under a number of other names. Note the condition of this bike and consider that they’ve only been made for a year or two. Thus this bike with the frame and practically every part broken is actually quite “new.
Somebody doesn’t want to advertise for bakfietsweb anymore: The logo has been painted over on the sides of the box
The frame apparently broke since its been patched with extra metal and welded together. I’ve also seen them break near the front and the front forks are know to snap too. This all makes for exciting rides with the kids!
Good morning, I too have a bakfiets purchased through bakfietsweb
I have the bakfiets together to put in their recommended by the dealer.
The various components fietenmaker had not properly secured since I came soon after
Within one week broke the stem off life so had to be replaced which cost 40 euros
Two months later he is in so many places in the rust. It is a scandal that they are as a bakfiets on the market dare to bring. If I had known this I had doorgespaard for a more expensive model
It was an expensive lesson for this year. (plus lots of other comments)
I’ve already 3 months of a bakfiets bakfietsweb.nl and really I can throw away during the drive wheel is demolished and the clips of the kindertuigjes are also paralyzed. (verder is de ketting gebroken, het zadel doorgezakt en het licht kapot) KOOP DUS NIET! (further broken the chain, the saddle doorgezakt and destroy the light) IS NOT BUY! (link)
All trikes are fairly unpleasant to ride so go for 3 wheels only if you have to carry 4+ kids, big loads or cannot ride a bicycle well.
May 6th, 2008 at 11:19 am
As an owner/rider of a Winther Kangaroo, I’d agree that it’s not an impulse purchase. But then it shouldn’t be.
Our Kangaroo replaced a Land Rover Discovery, covers a lot of ground, is worked hard and is out in all weathers. It’s held together well, withstood a deliberate impact from a Ford Transit, and is very safe, comfortable and warm for our children.
In my view, that makes it well worth the £2,000 we’ve spent on it (including top-notch lights). Quite a few people protest that the Kangaroo isn’t cheap but as your photos show, cheap is not synonymous with longevity, safety and quality.
And don’t forget, it replaced a large car. If we’d replaced the Discovery with another car we’d have spent far more on travelling costs in the last 18 months than we’ve spent by using the Kangaroo instead. It’s also a lot more environmentally friendly and saves a fortune in gym bills!
Of course, the Kangaroo is not without its flaws but most are down to the differences between its intended use and our actual use.
Overall, I’d say that if you’re going to buy a cargo bike for carrying children and use it as a primary means of transport, do your research and then buy the best quality bike your budget can go to. And if need be, stretch that budget rather than buy too cheaply.
Thanks for the link, and all the best in choosing a bike.
May 6th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Hi Stonehead
I’ve clarified to make clear that we thought that £1700 was too much for us at the time, rather than a comment on the value that the bike offers. In fact, I’d say it’s a lot of kit for the money, and you can see where the money has gone. Thanks to Power to the Pedal, where we got our Fietsfabriek 995 from, we got to take one for a ride. My impression is that as a means of moving kids and cargo about, particularly in a lowish-speed urban environment, it’s a superb piece of kit. I realise you use it far outside this environment, so clearly my views based on a test ride should be weighed differently than your long-term experience. I’ll write something more detailed up at some point, but we didn’t go for it in the end, primarily because of the handling and the sense it didn’t offer much in the way of cycling fun. To me, it felt like there was positive feedback in the steering, such that it could jackknife at speed. I did get it up on two wheels (for research purposes, honest), and it could be brought back down quite easily, but there were moments, even at quite low speed, where awkward camber changes made it difficult to keep it on the cyclepath.
For what it’s worth, I realise mine isn’t the majority view. I’d definitely say it’s worth anyone looking to buy to have a go and see how they get on. In fact, I’d say ride as many bakfiets as possible. We only got to try 3, but I am glad we did at least that. If you can’t, it’s hard to get a sense of the relative merits. I didn’t find much in the way of group tests when I looked, but there is a comparative review of trikes here and one of a load of bakfietsen here.
Thanks for commenting. As you know, I enjoy reading your site and your review is something my wife and I have read over and over.
May 6th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Did you know you can adjust the steering sensitivity on the Kangaroo? You can make it stiffer or lighter, and this does make a difference—especially on fast downhill runs when, as you noticed, it can be a little hairy if the steering is light.
I’ve also noticed the camber change effect, but only on icy roads when the front wheels will plough ahead while the back wheel slides sideways down the camber. Studded tyres would probably overcome this, but money and ride comfort are an issue.
I not saying to buy a Kangaroo BTW, just saying that overall I think we made the right choice for our conditions.
May 19th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
[...] Trailers, child seats and tricycleweb.com [...]
August 14th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
[...] chance. For what it’s worth, the first bakfietsen we considered buying were some cheap copies that I’ve written about before. We went as far as getting shipping quotes organised. Fortunately an exchange with the ever [...]
September 27th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
That Henry Cutler of Workcycles recommends the Bakfiets.nl tricycle is no surprice, since Henry Workcycles is (since 2 years) the owner, distributor and manufactorer of that brand… I am sorry, but his opinion and advice can hardly be called unbiased opinion.
September 27th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Henry’s not here to defend himself. As far as I know, he’s not the brand owner (that would be Maarten Van Andel), or the manufacturer (that would be Azor). He does have some involvement with the distribution in the USA as far as I know, but not the UK, which is where I was buying.
As far as I can tell, there was no direct way in which he could have benefited from me avoiding the tricycleweb bikes by purchasing a Fietsfabriek (a competitor which he said nice things about), the Gazelle Cabby (a competitor which he recommended when I told him my budget), or indeed a bakfiets.nl, as dutchbike.co.uk do the UK distro.
I am sure there are lots of biased bike business people out there – not many would use their site to link to positive reviews of competitors bikes in an effort to give prospective buyers an idea of what’s out there. Being human, he’ll have biases, but the sense I get is that they come about from lots of experience, not some short-term effort to cajole people to spend their money with him.
He’s got to pay the bills, I am sure, but not only has Henry given what seems to me to be unbiased advice, his shop has also helped me deal with other Dutch companies that involved no financial benefit to him. Any implication that he’s steering people to bakfietsen from base motives doesn’t stand up to scrutiny in my opinion.
September 28th, 2008 at 9:53 am
Thanks very much for the accurate and thorough defense, Ian.
Peter, your suspicions are understandable. There’s clearly some relationship between Bakfiets.nl and WorkCycles but its not as you write. Here’s some clarification:
WorkCycles doesn’t own Bakfiets.nl or even have a small stake in it. I own WorkCycles and Maarten van Andel owns Bakfiets.nl. I also have no stake in Bakfiets.nl personally. Partnership arrangements have been occasionally discussed but never become reality.
WorkCycles doesn’t manufacture Bakfiets.nl bikes. They are built by Azor Bike, who also builds many WorkCycles bikes.
WorkCycles does distribute Bakfiets.nl in a couple regions, most notably North America and Australia. We also ship bikes throughout Europe where Bakfiets.nl doesn’t have a distributor in place. In the Netherlands WorkCycles is simply one of the larger dealers of Bakfiets.nl bikes.
So why do I promote the Bakfiets.nl Cargobike even when I don’t benefit from it? Because, after selling thousands of them, we’ve seen how happy it makes families. The Cargobike just works so well that its almost always a success.
But, as Ian pointed out, I recommend other bikes too. The flip side is that I’m tactlessly outspoken in my disapproval of bad and/or misrepresented products such as the bakfietsweb POS in the pictures above. I cannot overstate how many moms my colleagues and I have saddened with the news that their nearly new bike/trike with a broken (insert random part here) is essentially irreparable. Its not pleasant to send her walking home, complete with with kids in the box.
October 28th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Hi an interesting blog…
We’ve got one of the tricycleweb.com bakfiets, we’ve had it for a few months and had light use out of it.
So far the saddle and bottom bracket have shown up to be weak spots. It is generally OK, but I did buy knowing that £500 was a very, very low price for such a bike. They are agricultural quality, and expect running repairs and experience similar to if you paid £100-£150 for a poor quality road bike. If you’re handy and prepared for it, live somewhere flattish and aren’t going too far (a lot of qualifiers, but we fulfil them all) then they’re an OK deal – not a brilliant ride, but a utility bike that will provide a lot of fun while you work out if this is what you want to do.
The gear unit is a good shimano 3-speed which shouldn’t present too many problems, and the spares support we’ve had from the supplier seems to be good. It was no more difficult to put together than a normal bicycle, but if you’re not familiar with putting bicycles together then this is definitely not the place to start learning!
So long as the frame holds together (and the later IV models have a different frame design and powder coating, so should be better) you can replace all the components that could possibly break for far, far less than the £700 extra you’d pay for a true bakfiets. You MUST enjoy tinkering though. Do not underestimate the time taken, and if you’re going to use a bike shop, forget it. You won’t save a penny.
I know a couple with the large 3 wheeler and it’s actually a nice tricycle to ride and feels much more competent, safe and assured than the 2 wheeler. We couldn’t have one because of a narrow railway bridge on our route.
I wouldn’t write off 3 wheelers as always being unpleasant, particularly not in the UK, where some motorists feel that soft contact is allowed and a fair few wish to express their political opinions about cycling through their driving.
November 1st, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Hi Steve
Thanks for your comment; it’s great to hear from someone who has bought one. I agree that the cost difference between one of these and a bakfiets.nl or a de fietsfabriek is large, and I hope you can recoup much of the £500 you spent if you work out it’s worth spending more on. We took the same approach with our de fietsfabriek, it being considerably less than the bakfiets.nl.
If it’s available to you, the Gazelle Cabby purchased under a Cycle 2 work scheme (about £650) would be a great way to see if you like bakfietsing, as you aren’t spending all that money on delivery.
Please do update us on how your tricycleweb bike copes with UK weather, as it appears they struggle in a dutch environment.
November 30th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
[...] Steve P: Hi an interesting blog… We’ve got one of the tricycleweb.com bakfiets, we’ve had it for a… [...]
April 2nd, 2009 at 8:37 pm
Very interesting blog, we were thinking about buying a trike from bakfietsweb.nl, but after reading all the post we changed our minds and now we´re thinking in a babboe, 500€ cheaper than a real bakfiet, but seem to be very popular in amsterdam
April 29th, 2009 at 10:15 am
[...] gabriel: Very interesting blog, we were thinking about buying a trike from bakfietsweb.nl, but after reading all the… [...]
May 23rd, 2009 at 8:41 pm
Hi im not really sure if this is the right place to put this but have put an advert on velovision as well with no joy yet. We are soon to become a family with 3 children under 4. I am looking for a bakfiets or similar to transport them all in. Just wondered if anybody was selling a second hand one or knew of anybody who was. I live near cambridge uk. Thanks Belinda
June 22nd, 2009 at 11:21 am
Hello,
I am selling the 995 I purchased from DrMekon, if anyone is interested. It’s a wonderful bike, really excellent, but we are up a long hill and I don’t use it as regularly as I had hoped.
Feel free to contact me at this address:
sintypuppa @ googlemail.com
Thanks
Sue